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Simplilearn Complaints & Reviews

4.7
Updated: Nov 22, 2025
Complaints 525
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Simplilearn reviews & complaints page 6

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D
from Kolkata, West Bengal
Apr 13, 2023
Apr 18, 2023
This thread was updated on Apr 18, 2023
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Aws cloud computing

Website: [email protected]/[email protected]

1) Am Registered To Aws Cloud Architect On 26th July 2021 Under Your Sales Executive Annaya Rajan
2) At The Time Of Registration She Didn't Let Me Go Through The Terms And Conditions Properly But Make Me Sign In To The Account In Hury While She Is A Telephonic Conversation With Me 3)She Hide Refund Policy S And Swaping Policy's From Me
4) Portal Isn't User Friendly Even Class Registration
Is Allso Tricky
Thebr...
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from Kolkata, West Bengal
Apr 13, 2023
Apr 18, 2023
This thread was updated on Apr 18, 2023
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Address: simplilearn ,Address. 24th MainHSR Layout, Bangalore - 560102 Landmark: OPPOSITE Power Station

1) Am Registered To Aws Cloud Architect On 26th July 2021 Under Your Sales Executive Annaya Rajan
2) At The Time Of Registration She Didn't Let Me Go Through The Terms And Conditions Properly But Make Me Sign In To The Account In Hury While She Is A Telephonic Conversation With Me 3)She Hide Refund Policy S And Swaping Policy's From Me
4) Portal Isn't User Friendly Even Class Registration
Is Allso Tricky
The
Portal Is Full Of Bugs And Tecniqual Issues
5) Am Not Notified About The Procedure O[censored]nlocking
The Exam Voucher Prior To Assigning To The
Program
6)Nither Notified About The Project Submission
Criteria 7) Self Learning Videos Are Old And Easyly Available On Internet
8) Although Promising For A Master's Program The Course Meterials Are Very Basics Only,
9) Instuctures Are Not Worthy Nither They Pay Atention To Every Student Equally 10) No Exam Assistance Or Mentors Are
Provided As Promised
11) For Even A Small Enquiries I Nedd To Knock Door To Door
12)In Lms Portal We Have Arya Which Does Nothing Just Provide Some Mechanical
13) At The Time Of Addmission Am Not Acknowledged About The Fact That After Even Paying 45000rs I Have To Pay Separately For Using Different Apps
14)I Told Them Reapetedly About This Problems But They Never Pays Any Atention My Tickets Remains Un Aswered
15) Finally They Agreed To Swap My Course With Digital Marketing But They Are Not Providing Exam Tickets Nither They Are Providing The Exam Voucher Nither They Will Give Me Any Internships
And Even I Have To Pay Separately For Running The Apps So Why Am Paying 45k?
16) Becouse Of Them Am Going Throw Cardiac & Psychological Issues Nither Am Able To Continue My Studies I Want My Refund Back .
17 They Have Doses Of Hidden Policy They Won't Tell You At The Time Of Purchase This Bastards Are Hackling Me Since 2years, I Even Pleeded To Liquiloans She Was Ready To Cansel The Loan But Simplilearn Coldly Rejected My Petition And Told Her Why Did She Sharing Internal Ids With Costumers.
If We Raise Any Tickets Then Have To Wait For 12-48hours For Getting Any Feedback, The Sales Executive Ananya Just Vanished,
What Do You Rascals You Just Take Away Our Money And Vanished,
They Pay No Attention To The Students Some Times Few Classes Always Rescheduled And Never Happens, You Have To Wait For 2-3hours For Getting Answered There Helpline Number All Was Stay Busy, I Am Done I Want Justice
I
Few Weeks After Purchasing I Came To Know That Sales Executive Won't Help Me Anymore If I Wanna Know Anything I Have To Raise A Ticket, They Had Dozens Of Hidden Policys They Don't Let You Know Prior To Purchase, You Have To Pay 45000 Rs Then Separately for Using The Application to Complete the Projects
May 20, 2023
Complaint marked as Resolved 
Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
Verified Support
Apr 18, 2023
Simplilearn Customer Care's response
Hi, this is not the experience we aim to provide. We have your details and we are looking into this and will get in touch with you soon.
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    L
    Luficer1987
    Apr 12, 2023
    Apr 19, 2023
    This thread was updated on Apr 19, 2023
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    PRINCE II foundation and practitioner course exam not getting registered on peoplecert site

    Hello Team,
    I am writing to file a formal complaint against Simplilearn since I firmly believe they are performing fraud by just pulling people to enroll for training programs by showing lower amount initially. I recently completed a training program with Simplilearn and was assured that I would be able to enroll for the relevant exam upon completion of the program. However, I have been unable to enroll for the exam despite numerous...
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    Hemavathi B
    Apr 10, 2023
    Apr 18, 2023
    This thread was updated on Apr 18, 2023
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    Refund of Full-stack developer course

    Address: online

    I have joined the simplilearn course for July batch on 10/06/2022 from a career councilor from simpillearn who said like they provide course with placement if we didn't get placed in any company they money of 19000 will be refunded .
    After i complete my course the career service said that i have to join the hirist platform for job nut after joined in the platform in November they didn't activate it when i raise a complaint they said...
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    allenwesley
    from Chennai, Tamil Nadu
    Apr 6, 2023
    Apr 18, 2023
    This thread was updated on Apr 18, 2023
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    They will ask extension amount while paying the course emi Dont trust them please as public we need to oppose. Please help me in this
    +1 photos
    Apr 11, 2025
    Complaint marked as Resolved 
    Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
    Verified Support
    Apr 18, 2023
    Simplilearn Customer Care's response
    Hi Allen, we will not be able to provide a refund since you're not eligible as per our policy. Feel free to reach out to us at [protected]@simplilearn.com for any other concerns.
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      allenwesley
      from Chennai, Tamil Nadu
      Apr 6, 2023
      Apr 18, 2023
      This thread was updated on Apr 18, 2023
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      Am very depressed to pay emi for non approachable course in simple learn so please help me to stop emi or what action can I take on it
      Apr 13, 2025
      Complaint marked as Resolved 
      Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
      Verified Support
      Apr 18, 2023
      Simplilearn Customer Care's response
      Hi Allen, thank you for reaching out. We cannot provide a refund since you're not eligible as per our policy. Feel free to reach out to us at [protected]@simplilearn.com for any other concerns.
      Verified Support
      Apr 18, 2023
      Simplilearn Customer Care's response
      Hi Allen, we cannot provide a refund since you're not eligible as per our policy. Feel free to reach out to us at [protected]@simplilearn.com for any other concerns.
      Verified Support
      Apr 18, 2023
      Simplilearn Customer Care's response
      Hi Allen, as informed via email, we will not be able to provide a refund since you're not eligible as per our refund policy. Let us know if there's anything else we can help you with.
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        U
        Umar8
        from Belgaum, Karnataka
        Apr 3, 2023
        Apr 24, 2023
        This thread was updated on Apr 24, 2023
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        I tried many times to cancel my loan taken from propelled for simplilearn. Raised multiple tickets and asked customer support team but no proper response from them simply my amount is getting deducted from my account and getting calls from propelled team regarding emi. I requested propelled team as well to cancel this loan but they said only Institution can do it. Simplilearn is scam just they want to make people money there is no assistance from their side when students really want. I have stopped taking course due to personal and health issues I informed them same. However they don't consider anything they just need money. Need someone help on this many of them facing same issue with their customer service
        Apr 16, 2025
        Complaint marked as Resolved 
        Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
        Verified Support
        Apr 18, 2023
        Simplilearn Customer Care's response
        Hi Umar, that's not what we like to hear.  Please share your registered contact details at [protected]@simplilearn.com and we'll check this out.
        Verified Support
        Apr 18, 2023
        Simplilearn Customer Care's response
        Hi Umar, that's not what we like to hear.  Please share your registered contact details at [protected]@simplilearn.com and we'll check this out.
        Contact nac consumer court
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          Aditi Shukla0101
          from Indore, Madhya Pradesh
          Apr 3, 2023
          Apr 18, 2023
          This thread was updated on Apr 18, 2023
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          I want to cancel my emi, i have not attend any classes of simplilearn as didnt find that much useful
          Apr 4, 2025
          Complaint marked as Resolved 
          Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
          Verified Support
          Apr 18, 2023
          Simplilearn Customer Care's response
          HiAditia, that's not what we like to hear.  Please share your registered contact details at [protected]@simplilearn.com and we'll check this out.
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            K
            Karthik182
            from Bengaluru, Karnataka
            Apr 2, 2023
            Apr 18, 2023
            This thread was updated on Apr 18, 2023
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            I brought cyber security expert course at simplilearn in July 2022 and I really felt great regret of purchasing this thing. I am literally brainwashed to buy this course by the simplilearn learning consultants, I'm still a degree student this program is masters level and they said it's ok and easy to me to learn this course.

            After buying the course I joined the class which is after the trial period and after seeing the class I felt really disappointed and felt hard and contacted her(consultant). I was told that i cannot cancel the course because the trial period is over and also she said to continue the course, good opportunity, there will be good content as I go, , .. bla bla bla.

            I continued... Every time when I look into classes I really disappointed and frustrated.. poor content. Till now april 2023 I still paying this liquiloan guys and I lost 50000 rps..

            And now I ended up in big problem that i can't go to college no money to pay and no positivity in mind, I lost good health and full of agony and regret..

            Please I'm requesting to refund as much possible money to me please...

            Thank you
            May 19, 2023
            Complaint marked as Resolved 
            Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
            Verified Support
            Apr 18, 2023
            Simplilearn Customer Care's response
            Hi Karthik, this is not the experience we aim to provide. Please share your registered contact details at [protected]@simplilearn.com and we will get in touch with you soon.
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              Negi89
              Mar 29, 2023
              Apr 3, 2023
              This thread was updated on Apr 3, 2023
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              Premjit and Kishan from Simplilearn has asked me to pay the full fee for PMP program and given a mail to me stating 4k will be refunded once 4 classes are completed.
              There is not refund till date, nor they are picking up my calls or reverting on messages.
              Apr 16, 2025
              Complaint marked as Resolved 
              Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
              Verified Support
              Apr 03, 2023
              Simplilearn Customer Care's response
              Hi there, this is not the experience we aim to provide. Please share your registered contact details and we will get in touch with you soon.
              Hey they are fraud and sucking emi liqiloans
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                Ansardheen Ali
                Mar 27, 2023
                Mar 29, 2023
                This thread was updated on Mar 29, 2023
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                I started my online course in the month of november 2022 and i made my first payment by 5th of december 2023. Am not getting any support from my guide as he is avoiding my calls. I am willing to terminate the agreement with simplilearn and discontinue the course. I didnt make any delay on my paymentand even i am not getting any support from your side. so please help me to move forward and to discontinue the course
                Mar 27, 2025
                Complaint marked as Resolved 
                Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
                Verified Support
                Mar 29, 2023
                Simplilearn Customer Care's response
                Hi, this is not the experience we aim to provide. Please share your registered contact details at [protected]@simplilearn.com and we will get in touch with you soon.
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                  V
                  Vikram$1176
                  from Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh
                  Mar 25, 2023
                  Mar 29, 2023
                  This thread was updated on Mar 29, 2023
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                  Address: NALANDA 53/1 C, Manoj Arcade, 24th Main Rd, Sector 2, HSR Layout, Bengaluru - 560102, Karnataka, India.Phone No:1800-212-7688

                  Because of the simplilearn fake promise i lost my career. I have not got any resolution from my previous complaint any i am writing again.
                  I am 5 + years experience of workings employee. I felt in a trap of simplilearn saying job guarantee program. they just brainwashed me to takeup the same course which i have already received masters certificate on 2019 with the same simplilearn. i am not at all interested to take the same course again paying lot of amount 1.40 L .for earlier certification i have paid 40 k. for the same content they have charged 1.40L by saying job guarantee. i have completed again this certification. Now they are not kept their promise. Till date they not provided a proper service which is worth of that much huge fee. I left my previous job just believing their fake promises. present i not have any source of income. I lost my money and time because of their job guarantee fraud. I requested to refund my fee amount from the time of joining. They just don't cared. i no have any job in hands. because of them i have career gap in my experience.because of them i lost, my money, time and peace. i am ashamed to show my face to my parents and to my friends because of simplilearn. i am expecting my money back for the fraud they did to me. i am that much dumb that i payed 35 k and again 1.4L for the same course just because i felt simplilearn trap.

                  I am requesting a refund of my money which i have paid till date to simplilearn
                  May 2, 2023
                  Complaint marked as Resolved 
                  Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
                  Verified Support
                  Mar 29, 2023
                  Simplilearn Customer Care's response
                  Hi Vikram, that's not what we like to hear.  Please share your registered contact details at [protected]@simplilearn.com and we'll check this out.
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                    A
                    Ajay Gore
                    Mar 22, 2023
                    Mar 29, 2023
                    This thread was updated on Mar 29, 2023
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                    Dear Proplld Team

                    Simplilearn institute is not responding to any of my mails or requests and are not able to hear any of my calls

                    All they do is transfer my call to this department to that department and keep me waiting for the concern person to get in touch with me

                    I am absolutely fed up with this kind of attitude of simplilearn as this people are not canceling my course or they are ready to give the pending money to you guys as I have already told them in February 2023 that I want to cancel my course due to not having enough time to spend on online classes

                    I have already paid 8 emi out of which 6 emi I have paid even when I did not attend the classes from July 2022 to December 2022

                    Still I paid till February 2023

                    But now it's too much of their callousness attitude and I am not taking it lightly

                    I request you to take the remaining money from simplilearn team and don't call me again as I am fed up of contacting them and wasting my time and energy

                    You should also be responsible enough to make a clause In your contract with simplilearn that if any student drop out in between of course due to any personal reason or any other issue you shud be liable to take the remaining money from simplilearn team

                    Which you guys have not done that and are blaming us that we paid the money etc etc

                    You guys should also talk with the simplilearn team and talk about remaining money which you guys are not doing and asking us to follow up which we are doing it but no luck till now

                    I dont want hear your standard reply as "We are just loan partners and we cannot cancel your loan. Please contact your institute regarding this."

                    I need a proper resolution to my problem. Which you guys are lacking to understand.

                    I hope this point is very much clear to you guys.

                    Take your remaining money from simplilearn Institute and not me. As you guys have already paid the amount to them and it becomes your responsibility to follow up with those guys (Simplilearn).

                    Regards
                    Apr 30, 2023
                    Complaint marked as Resolved 
                    Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
                    Verified Support
                    Mar 29, 2023
                    Simplilearn Customer Care's response
                    Hi Ajay, that's not what we like to hear. We have your details and we are looking into this and will get in touch with you soon.
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                      Mar 22, 2023
                      Mar 29, 2023
                      This thread was updated on Mar 29, 2023
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                      Course cancellation and refund not giving

                      Address: Bangalore

                      Hello I have enrolled for Automation job gurantee programm.Your learning consultant who was assigned to me stopped answering my calls after loan approved and disbursed to the simplilearn. Now when i aske dto cancel the course you are saying refund is only 7 days. You people are saying refund is 7 days ... I have registered on December 21 and classes started from Jan 6th ... How can you people say 7 days when classes started after 20 days...
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                      Ajay Gore
                      Mar 21, 2023
                      Mar 29, 2023
                      This thread was updated on Mar 29, 2023
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                      Hello Simplilearn Team,

                      I am writing to request that my EMI deductions be stopped. I have been finding it difficult to understand the course and as a result, have not been able to give enough time to it due to my busy work schedule and hectic travelling. This has put a mental strain on me.

                      I am also aware that there is 7 day refund policy by simplilearn. But you guys also understand that for 6 months i have not attended the course but was still paying you the EMI on regular basis.

                      And when I have started my weekend batch on January 2023 for 1 month I was facing a lot of issue to understand the data analytics course.

                      Due to which in February 1st Week 2023 I have decided to not continue with the course and continue with my normal job.

                      From July 2022 To February 2023 I was paying you EMI on regular basis even after just attending 1 month of online course.

                      Henceforth I request you to kindly cancel my course as I will not be able to pay any emi henceforth due to not attending the course.

                      Simplilearn has also not mentioned anything while I have enrolled the course that if any candidate is not able to continue his course and want to stop in between what can be the next step for this.

                      I have emailed several times to simpli learn about my issue and also spoke with some of their chat representatives, but so far have not received any satisfactory response or I would say proper response in my case.

                      I would kindly request you guys to not send and of your recovery team at my house without giving a proper notice or call me at any given time and harass me for no fault of mine.

                      As i dont want to continue with your course and i dont want to pay any money to your EMI Partner (Propelld).

                      Please return the remaining amount to the propelld team so that they dont call me for pending payment and harass me.

                      Only then I will say that you resolved my issue.

                      I hope this email is heard to the upper management and will find solution for me.

                      As i have already mentioned what my situation was to the lady who spoke with me on phone from propelled team.

                      I hope you guys speak with simpli learn team as they are not giving me any proper reason to resolve this issue.
                      May 10, 2023
                      Complaint marked as Resolved 
                      Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
                      Verified Support
                      Mar 29, 2023
                      Simplilearn Customer Care's response
                      Hi Ajay, that's not what we like to hear. We have your details and we are looking into this and will get in touch with you soon.
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                        R
                        ramyad0323
                        from Vijayawada, Andhra Pradesh
                        Mar 18, 2023
                        Mar 29, 2023
                        This thread was updated on Mar 29, 2023
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                        Resolved

                        Address: # 53/1 C, Manoj Arcade, 24th Main Rd, 2nd Sector, HSR Layout, Bengaluru, Karnataka 560102

                        I am writing to inquire about a recent refund I was promised by your company that amount of 93399.67, i.e, 24th January'23 was credited. I was told that the refund would be credited to my credit card, however, I have checked my bank account and I have not seen any amount credited as a refund. I also attached my statement along with this email which is not increased by 93, 399.67

                        My refund ID is 23551.

                        I would appreciate it if you could provide me with more information about the refund.

                        I would also like to know what steps your company is taking to ensure that the refund is credited to my account as soon as possible. If there have been any issues or delays with the refund process, I would appreciate an explanation of the cause and an estimated timeline for resolution.

                        Thank you for your time and assistance. I look forward to hearing back from you soon.

                        Sincerely,
                        Ramya. Damarla
                        +1 photos
                        Apr 29, 2023
                        Complaint marked as Resolved 
                        Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
                        Verified Support
                        Mar 29, 2023
                        Simplilearn Customer Care's response
                        Hi Ramya, that's not what we like to hear. We have your details and we are looking into this and will get in touch with you soon.
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                          A
                          allenwesley
                          from Chennai, Tamil Nadu
                          Mar 17, 2023
                          Mar 30, 2023
                          This thread was updated on Mar 30, 2023
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                          I have joined block chain course, In first told IIT certification please register soon so only limited seats, after joining they are not considering itself.
                          We need to call them and simply they will say cohort changed, so attendance and classes you can't see. so again, pays some amount we can reschedule the classes.

                          Guys Don't waste money here. am wasted my money here.

                          Standard of teaching is very poor

                          They will not also call you

                          Waste waste waste

                          Please share all medias
                          Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
                          All times noticed message for all complaints

                          We will get

                          that's not what we like to hear. We have your details and we are looking into this and will get in touch with you soon. Nothing action taken so am requesting to take huge action against them to trying to canvas peoples. So share all media’s and try to get the wasted money from them.

                          Sure they will be answer for our wastef money
                          Simplilearn Customer Care's response, Mar 29, 2023
                          Verified Support
                          Hi Allen, we have been trying to get in touch and haven't heard back from you. Let us know a convenient time we can get through by reverting to the email we have sent.
                          You have already contacted me over phone two times and still you are not able to take any actions

                          You are cheaterrrr fraud Simple learn

                          Anyone please help me to solve this
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                            A
                            Aromal Aniyan
                            Mar 16, 2023
                            Mar 29, 2023
                            This thread was updated on Mar 29, 2023
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                            Resolved

                            Cancellation of course and refund

                            Address: Address: NALANDA 53/1 C, Manoj Arcade, 24th Main Rd, Sector 2, HSR Layout, Bengaluru - 560102, Karnataka, India

                            I was initially interested in the PGP in Digital marketing course after looking at their(SimpliLearn) website. I wanted to get the brochure so I entered my email and mobile number which they had requested on their site in order to receive the brochure to my email id. I was then contacted by a representative by the name Aman Garg of SimpliLearn.He gave me the details of the course and repeatedly kept pursuing me to give him a confirmation...
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                            allenwesley
                            from Chennai, Tamil Nadu
                            Mar 13, 2023
                            Mar 14, 2023
                            This thread was updated on Mar 14, 2023
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                            Resolved

                            I have joined block chain course, In first told IIT certification please register soon so only limited seats, after joining they are not considering itself.
                            We need to call them and simply they will say cohort changed, so attendance and classes you can't see. so again, pays some amount we can reschedule the classes.

                            Guys Don't waste money here. am wasted my money here.

                            Standard of teaching is very poor.
                            Apr 9, 2025
                            Complaint marked as Resolved 
                            Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
                            Verified Support
                            Mar 14, 2023
                            Simplilearn Customer Care's response
                            Hi Allen, that's not what we like to hear. We have your details and we are looking into this and will get in touch with you soon.
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                              D
                              dvini
                              Mar 9, 2023
                              Apr 18, 2023
                              This thread was updated on Apr 18, 2023
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                              Address: 53/1 C, Manoj Arcade, 24th Main Rd, 2nd Sector, HSR Layout, Bengaluru, Karnataka 560102

                              My name is ****** and I have enrolled for a PG program for Data Science with Simplilearn. First I never showed interest in enrolling for the course. But, upon repeated phone calls and requests and after I was told I could cancel the course before my EMI starts, I have decided to try out the course.

                              I have recently met with an accident and am not in a position to take up the course now and request to cancel my admission and also stop the EMI from going through. I would also like to point out that I haven't attended a single class and not even listened to the free content available on the dashboard.

                              I have been trying to reach the Sales Rep and also reached out to customer service numbers requesting for the cancellation. People spoke very rudely to me and asked if I had proof in the form of an email or if I have a phone call recording in support of the information conveyed over the phone. Is Simplilearn a fake portal or a fake company ? Why are they suggesting that I have to be careful and have written confirmation or phone recording to prove my case.Why is that I have jump through so many loops to be able to cancel my admission much before my first installment or much before my cohort starts or much before I start anything with Simplilearn. Why were false promises made and wrong information conveyed when they can't fulfill what they have committed to ?

                              I only joined Simplilearn as it's a global company and has been in the business in various countries. I didn't expect the support to be this bad. Now, I have lost trust not only in Simplilearn, but also with other online educational portals. This makes me think I shouldn't have referred Simplilearn to my friends and family. Doing so, I not only put myself in trouble and also put others at risk which I had no right to do.

                              I would request Simplilearn to cancel my admission, cancel my EMI option with Liqui Loan, before the first installment start date which is Dec 5 2022 . I have also raised a ticket regarding the same[protected] . Please help with my request as soon as possible. Also please train the company representatives to convey the right information and not make any false promises which they can't keep. My ticket is open and resolution is pending for a long time now.
                              Simplilearn customer support has been notified about the posted complaint.
                              Mar 11, 2023
                              Updated by dvini
                              Liqui Loan company is harassing me with multiple calls, emails and whats ap messages and threatening that there will be a legalaction . I am left with no option other than raising a conumeer complaint. I don't deserve this harassment for no fault of mine. Please cancel my admission and stop emi immediately.

                              No one deserves this harassment and not sure why Simplilearn is not worried about its reputation and troubling people this way
                              Mar 11, 2023
                              Updated by dvini
                              Liqui Lioan company is harassing me and issuing me threats. I don't deserve this kind of treatment when I have not even attended a single class from Simplilearn . I am raising this compliant to request Simplilearn to cancel my admission and issue cancellation to Liqui Loans to stop the EMI.
                              Mar 11, 2023
                              Updated by dvini
                              This Compliant is from Vineesha Durgampudi with application number PG[protected]
                              Verified Support
                              Mar 14, 2023
                              Simplilearn Customer Care's response
                              Hi, Vineesha! This is not the experience we aim to provide. We have your details and we are looking into this and will get in touch with you soon.
                              Mar 27, 2023
                              Updated by dvini
                              Is there any update to this ?
                              Apr 18, 2023
                              Updated by dvini
                              Please provide an update on this. It's been pending for a long time
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